Oath Keepers

by

There has been a lot of brouhahah about the  Oath Keepers.  For those of you not familiar with the Oath Keepers it is a group of:

“Military, Veterans, and peace officers who will honor their oaths to defend the Constitution, will NOT “just follow orders,” will stand for liberty, and will save the Republic, so help us God. Our motto is: “Not on Our Watch!”

So these brave folks have vowed to defend the Constitution even if it means disobeying orders from their superiors.

I don’t believe it.  Not that I don’t believe their good intentions, but no one knows how they will act when faced with the unknown.  Many a brave man turned tail and ran at the first shot fired.

Shall we look at some evidence and why I feel that the vow of the Oath Keepers can’t be relied upon?

So no, while I appreciate the Oath Keepers warm thoughts and well wishes I don’t believe that when push comes to shove they will disobey direct orders to do whatever is asked of them.  Talk is cheap.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful and I’m sure that the  Oath keepers are well intentioned, but based on the evidence – shooting unarmed people, shooting people in he back, wide spread beatings of citizens, seizure of legally owned firearms when people most need them taking pot away from dying people and on and on and on there is only one conclusion that any sane person can come to; that the authorities can’t be trusted.

And some news of the day – “The US government has admitted the nation’s power grid is vulnerable to cyber attack, following reports it has been infiltrated by foreign spies.” Are you prepping to live in the pre-industrial age?

And the Fed released the minutes from its last meeting, the economy is much worse than they let on and as you hopefully know the Fed downgraded its forecasts – “Sixty-three experts butted heads openly and were unable to decide whether the economy has just simply slowed more than expected, or is in the toilet — where it will remain for years to come.”

Don’t depend on anyone else to do what’s right.

Get outside everyday!!

An old stone dam built in the woods.

p1010063It’s difficult to get a sense of scale but I’d say it’s maybe 10-12 feet from the water to the top.

p1010065A nice piece of quartz sitting in the woods.

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18 Responses to “Oath Keepers”

  1. Stacy Says:

    this is great! i have a legal highs community that would love to see this.

  2. YeOldFurt Says:

    I grant all that you itemize, however, you advocate what? Taking a walk? The Oath Keepers are trying to organize the individuals that really believe in their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. Standing together instead of separately. Defending each other and the Constitution. Would you rather just throw the Constitution out the window? Or just sit around whining about the encroachments into civil liberties?
    You do us a disservice in casting aspersions upon our intent and yet offer no comparable alternative.
    Will we run instead of standing when things get pucker-tight? Some might, however, the greater majority have already heard the “shot fired in anger” and pledge to stand. Have you even felt the vibration of air as a bullet went by? Doubtful.
    I had great respect for you before, but now I’m coming to believe you actually want nanny.gov caring for you. Do you advocate that the people hide under the sofa and just whine about how bad the government is? Or just take a soothing walk in the countryside to alleviate their poor bruised egos?
    Obviously, you have never taken the oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, or if you did, then you are just an “oath taker” without the conscious recognition of what that entailed or possibly without the intention to fulfill that oath. What is your word worth?
    The “jack-booted thugs” that enforced the government will at Ruby Ridge, Waco and N.O. followed orders without any intention of living up to their oaths, if they took such oaths to begin with. These are not the sort of individuals we wish to have among us. We repudiate them and despise them. We welcome individuals who believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as they were written and are willing to pledge their “lives, fortunes and sacred honor”.
    Yes, talk IS cheap. That’s why we are doing something. What are you doing?
    YeOldFurt

  3. Abraham Says:

    YeOldFurt-

    I’m sorry if I insulted you. My intent wasn’t to disrespect or disparage the Oath Keepers. And I do believe that the Oath Keepers are well-intentioned. I call them the way I see them. You probably have 100+ friends, but how many could you really count on when the SHTF? Maybe 3 or 4. Same thing with the Oath Keepers.

    No, I don’t advocate throwing the Constitution out the window. I have more faith in the vets and retired vets who are members of the Oath Keepers than law enforcement. Now a retired vet joining the Oath Keepers, now you are talking about something. I have much more faith in retired vets who go the extra step and renew their vows.

    I have heard bullets wiz by my head. I didn’t like it at all. I was very scared and i crawled like a snake through the dirt. If I could have dug into the ground like an earthworm I would have. That’s why I am extremely weary of getting into any kind of shooting match with anyone that can shoot back. Those preppers or survivalists who think that they will give firearms to their kids and wife and shoot it out have never stopped to think of their kids’ or wife’s head exploded like a watermelon on hot pavement, or like Randy Weaver’s wife. I have seen gore. I know what human animals can do to other human animals. I want to apologize, avoid and back up as much as possible.

    I don’t want nanny government to care for us. I want responsible, limited government. I think we could prob get by with a government about 1/3 the size that it is now.

    I advocate that each of us is prepared to take care of ourselves. I think villages, communities and groups will rise from the ashes of what is left of our economy/country/civilization/society. There may be groups to barter or trade with or local farming groups. Forming groups of like-minded people is a great think.

    I don’t advocate not allowing groups of people to form and pledge whatever they want, but based on past events I’m not going to depend on anyone doing what I should be doing myself. I hope that militias form to keep the PTB honest. I want to see huge protests in the streets. I’d love for there to be a national strike.

    I have a tough time thinking that many active duty cops, federal agents and even most military would disobey direct orders even if the orders violated law, rules or the Constitution. That’s just the way I see it. I hope that I’m wrong. I also didn’t think that Americans would elect a black president and they did. I do have much more trust in retired vets doing the right thing,

    What am I doing? Other than living an honorable life, blogging and being prepared to take care of my own so I don’t become dependent on others, I defend the rule of law and force the government to go through it’s paces. I try to protect the innocent from the not so innocent and hold scumbags accountable.

    In the classroom this past week I taught my kids (college freshmen) about the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eight Amendments. These amendments relate to: the right to attorney, the right to privacy, the need for search warrants taken out upon oath or affirmation listing with particularity the person or place to be searched and the person or things to be seized, their right to remain silent, not consent to searches, the right to trial, a jury, knowing the charges against you, the right to subpoena witnesses in your favor, the protection against cruel and unusual punishment, the right to due process and the government having to pay you if they seize your property, the right to confront witnesses against you. We also covered a couple of interesting local cases about self-defense, when cops can engage in a Terry stop of someone to protect the cops against weapons and when cops can otherwise search you after they stopped you. We also covered the Exclusionary Rule and Fruit of the Poisonous tree.

    So 25 kids today know a lot more about their Constitution than they did last week. Unfortunately, kids spend barely anytime at all studying the Constitution in high school. I really try to instill in my kids a belief in the majesty of our Constitution.

    I have also spent a pretty fair amount of time walking with protest groups and doing marches. Probably more than 90% of the people out there.

    I like to live a quiet life, fly under the radar (although I know I’m on certain lists because of my associations) and do the right thing.

    Once again, didn’t mean to disparage anyone.

  4. YeOldFurt Says:

    Kudos to you sir, for being an instructor. And attempting to instruct Constitutional law within the constraints of the current educational system.
    My rebuttal was in defense of the Oath Keepers, our intent and beliefs. As Dr. Franklin said “We must hang together or we shall surely hang separately.” The Oath Keepers are a grass roots organization I feel strongly about because we believe in the basic Constitution and Bill of Rights. It is based upon local people working locally to band together in mutual support against government suppression and encroachment of our basic rights.
    It is true that our most populous membership is active duty and inactive or ex military personnel and few LEOs have joined at this time. However, we are seeking to rectify that by appealing to the LEOs that believe in the Constitution. Dissemination is the key, I believe.
    Aspersions and denigration of the organization do us no justice. Please go to the website and read the stated goals and testaments, then if you disagree, be succinct in detailing your disagreements. Mr. Stewart Rhodes is an ex-military person and founder of the Oath Keepers. I am sure he would be more than astute than I in engaging an informative debate.
    Be at peace sir,
    YeOldFurt

  5. YeOldFurt Says:

    A direct quote from Stewart Rhodes, founder of the Oath Keepers:
    “We don’t speak for all who took the oath, and we don’t promise that all of them will honor that oath. How could we? We speak only for ourselves, and we publicly declare that we will honor and keep our oath. The men among us are men of courage and conviction and will stand the test. Many of them have seen combat, and even those who have not are preparing themselves for the test. That is one of the purposes of our declaration of orders we will not obey – to serve as a tool of conditioning to prepare ourselves to take the stand.

    There have obviously been many examples of oath breakers in the past. That is why we exist – to change that fact for the better. But there have also been examples of oath keepers, who did stand up and say no. That too is fact. Men of courage have refused unlawful orders and have even put a stop to atrocities, such as Warrant Officer One Hugh Thompson, Jr., who stopped the My Lai massacre by threatening to turn the machine-guns of his choppers on the soldiers who were killing women and children. He was an Oath Keeper. And there have been many others, usually unsung. We aim to increase their numbers.

    Our goal is to grow our numbers to the point where the oath keepers vastly outnumber the oath breakers. It will take time, but however long it may take, that is our goal. And frankly, as is the case with liberty in general, the price will be eternal vigilance. It will be a perpetual battle. But we are in it to win, and we will not relent.”

    Stewart Rhodes
    Founder of Oath Keepers

  6. Kathy Harrison Says:

    Off the subject here. I just found your blog while surfing survival sites. I like it a lot and I like to be reminded to get outside. Kind of like Mr. Rogers telling me to spend time with my kids. I know it but I don’t mind hearing it. I am the author of Just In I have a couple of books I can send out as complimentary copies to other survival/preparedness writers. If you would be interested, give me your snail maile address and I will get it out. My web address is http://www.justincasebook.net. I would love to have you visit. You can mail send me the address from the comments section there.

    Kathy

  7. Alex Says:

    How does a former military person have any authority or opportunity to act on an oath any more than someone who has never served in uniform?

    Maybe all Americans could be encouraged to be more aware of supposed powers government may try to act on vs. the rights of peaceable, responsible adults.

    Concealed carry permits are now void on National Parks lands. Are there Oath Keepers in federal law enforcement, Park Rangers, etc. that will take sides with citizens on this?

    Our popular culture believes “The Troops are fighting to protect our Rights and Freedoms” Should we contact the Joint Chiefs of Staff if we want our concealed carry permit to be honored on National Parks lands?

  8. bob reeves Says:

    i think that all your ‘reasons’ for why these people will not be effective in a time of crisis, are all the reasons precisely, why they WILL be effective. it’s because of Wacco, Ruby Ridge, Rainbow Farm, Katrina, etc. that people are asserting themselves, as defenders of the republic, for which it stands. alot of Americans are wide awake…no longer asleep at the wheel.

  9. Maj. Benitez, USAF retired Says:

    Abraham,

    I understand and agree with your lack of confidence in much of our law enforcement and military establishment. However, your attack on Oath Keepers as YeOldFurt states was misplaced. Constitutional and moral resistance to government encroachment on our God given and enumerated Constitutional rights has to start somewhere.

    Hopefully many grassroots organizations that desire a restoration to a democratic Republic under the rule of Constitutional Law will rise up and make it known that they are willing to take the Declaration of Independence seriously even to the point of backing it up with their Second Amendment Rights if necessary.

    It seems that you too desire that restoration, particularly with your desire for limited government; the limit intended to be the Constitution. I welcome that. But please out of pessimism do not give up on those of us who do take that commissioning oath seriously. Rather, encourage it, it not even demanding it.

    By the way, I understand your lack of enthusiasm for high speed whizzes by your head. But do you not think that our Founding Fathers and the colonists who rebelled against British tyranny had the same reservations? And did they not put aside those reservations and stood their ground?

    For the benefit of Alex, please familiarize yourself with the conditions placed on retired military officers. Because of those conditions, the oath remains active. Now we need to convince more military officers, both active and retired, that they have a sworn duty under the Constitution and therefore have both legal and moral reasons to disobey unlawful orders. Read the UCMJ if you don’t believe that.

    Recce1

    R. E. Benitez, Major, USAF, Retired
    A politically incorrect conservative curmudgeon

  10. Alex Says:

    I like the idea of oath keepers, but I tend to object to dividing people up into groups and assigning a value to each group. Why not just encourage all Americans to stand up for what is right?

    I still do not understand how former military people have any authority or opportunity to act on an oath any more than someone who never served in uniform.

    Any adult citizen can be called to jury duty- does the former military person have some special authority in this case?

    Are there other situations where the former military person has special authority?

    I also believe the American people misunderstand the military. Our popular culture believes “The Troops are fighting to protect our rights and freedoms”

    Oath keepers seems to take a somewhat narrow focus- acting when martial law is declared- why not act on threats to the constitution in general.

    I pointed out that concealed carry permits are void on National Parks lands.
    Will the Joint Chiefs of Staff help out with this?

    The federal government- US Border Patrol- conducts internal, suspicionless checkpoints and roadblocks where all motorists and bus passengers are treated as guilty until proven innocent- required to stop and explain themselves to federal agents- even though they are not crossing the border.

    Are these situations going to be addressed by people in the military?

    In recent years we have heard talk of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Would gay marriage be legal without the amendment?

    Some would ask when was the last time we sent “The Troops” anywhere to defend the constitution?

  11. Allan Smith Says:

    Ok, now we’ve heard how Oath Keepers will fail us, what will YOU do if/when your constitutional rights are violated ? What will YOU do if the gov’t orders soldiers into your community to violate the rights of the common citizens in YOUR community ?

    What matters most to YOU right now … and I mean this sincerely … is what YOU will do to preserve the rights of YOUR neighbors !!

  12. Abraham Says:

    Mr. Smith-

    I will work within the system using all lawful means at my disposal. I will do whatever the government asks of me. I won’t create any waves. I will continue to to contact my elected representatives no matter how ineffectual it is. The government is, therefore it is always right and its actions just.

  13. Allan Smith Says:

    Abraham,

    In the event that any administration, either present or future, negates our constitutional right to own / sell / use guns, if the government asks you to shoot my mother-in-law because she refuses to turn me in for being a gun owner, will you obey ?

    If the gov’t stated that a family could only have ONE child, if your neighbor had TWO children, if there was a HEFTY reward for the head of any baby born to a family who already had one child and a federal statute existed which mandated that you kill that baby, would you do the job ?

    Somehow I doubt it. I don’t know you but I think I know enough about humanity and the American spirit to believe that you would recognize any such order to shoot my mother-in-law as an illegal order and one which you would be morally obligated to disobey.

    I, and other intelligent readers, recognize the hypothetical and the rhetorical in the above questions. I hope you do to.

    Would you care to clarify your apparently overly generalized statement ?

  14. Abraham Says:

    I was trying to be facetious or sarcastic. I generally don’t think it’s a good idea to write in public forums how someone may respond to hypothetical situations. To each his own. I hope that I would do the right thing. I think we need to be careful what we write. The government has very big eyes and ears.

  15. YeOldFurt Says:

    Abraham has stated succinctly his position on 4 May at 1:38 am. No more needs to be said.
    YeOldFurt

  16. Joe Says:

    My intent is to disrespect and disparage the Oath Keepers.
    They’re dangerous morons

  17. oldhippie-nam-vet-2-tours Says:

    we-are-ready-to-die-even-for-people-like-abraham

  18. legal smoking blends Says:

    I don’t know what the Oath Keepers mean,explain properly which will be helpful.

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